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#trending | Podcast: What occurs to the lives of those that survive violent encounters with police? Audie Cornish hears from two survivors – CNN.com – RSS Channel – HP Hero
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Leon Ford and Tim Alexander are two individuals who have skilled police brutality. In 2012, Leon Ford was 19 and residing in Pittsburgh when he was pulled over by officers who believed he was a suspect with an analogous identify. Regardless of displaying his legitimate driver’s license and automobile registration, he was not allowed to go away. Through the site visitors cease, he drove away with an officer in the passenger aspect of the automobile, and the officer fired 5 pictures into Leon’s chest, paralyzing him from the waist down. The officers concerned have been by no means criminally charged. In 1985, Tim Alexander was 19 and visiting his grandparents in Newark when he noticed three males in common road garments get out of a close-by automobile. They shouted orders at him, and when he tried to drive away, they shot at him and missed. He tried to stroll away, however they struck him in the knees with a flashlight and in the abdomen as they arrested him. A grand jury refused to indict the officers concerned and his civil swimsuit ended in a settlement. Leon and Tim each spoke in regards to the issue of reliving the expertise once they inform their tales and the way they’ve needed to regulate their tales for various audiences. Leon has leveraged his story as a device to evoke change in the world, whereas Tim has abbreviated his story to make it more impactful.
I have run out of phrases to explain video footage of cops kneeling on or choking or taking pictures or hanging or beating an individual they believe of a criminal offense. And if you happen to depend the beating of Rodney King in 1991, I’ve been making an attempt to make sense of those photographs since I was 12. And regardless of acquittal after acquittal after acquittal, 4 officers concerned, we’re instructed that these movies are precious, that physique cams or sprint cams will change the conduct that results in extreme power by cops, that they will present readability and proof in judicial circumstances, despite the fact that analysis has proven it does neither. After which we in journalism assume it is a civic responsibility to show each minute. And a few say it is a ethical obligation so that you can watch them so that you just is likely to be moved to behave. However I have run out of phrases. And so, I wished to listen to from individuals who have survived the site visitors cease that would have ended in loss of life. I wished to listen to from individuals who have, for lack of a greater phrase, starred in the type of grim film that we have all gotten used to seeing. What did they study from their brush with police brutality? How did they survive the aftermath or the scrutiny from individuals who insist that they did one thing to deserve it? How do they transfer on when there is all the time one other video? I’m Audie Cornish, and this is The Task. There are the facts, after which there is “the story.”
Personally, I don’t love going into the details of what occurred to me. I’ve in all probability instructed the story a number of 1000’s of times, and every time that I share, I relive what occurred.
This is Leon Ford. In 2012, he was 19 and residing in Pittsburgh. And there is police sprint cam video of his site visitors cease. Ford was pulled over by officers who believed he was a suspect with an analogous identify. Leon Ford confirmed his legitimate driver’s license and automobile registration and this was not sufficient. One other officer was known as to the scene to confirm that Leon Ford was not the particular person they have been on the lookout for. And through this site visitors cease, Leon refused to get out of the automobile. At one level, he drove away with an officer in the passenger aspect of the automobile. That officer fired 5 pictures into Leon’s chest. One of many bullets paralyzed him from the waist down. The officers concerned have been by no means criminally charged. Ford was awarded 5.5 million in a civil trial towards the town. Right this moment, Leon Ford is co-founding father of a social change group known as The Right here Basis, one he co-based with a former Pittsburgh Police Chief.
Generally I inform the story and it does have an effect on me emotionally as a result of it places me proper again on Ludlow Road in Newark.
Now, this is Tim Alexander.
After which generally I inform the story, as a matter of truth, that, all proper, this is what occurred to me. This is why now we have to have change. So it depends upon my viewers. It depends upon the place my head is on the time of telling the story.
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In Might of 1985, Tim Alexander was 19 years previous. He was visiting his grandparents in Newark after the loss of life of his father. He noticed three males in common road garments get out of a close-by automobile. These males started shouting orders at Tim. He tried to drive away, however they shot at him and missed. Tim received out of the automobile, tossed his keys and pockets down. He tried to stroll away. They struck him in the knees with a flashlight. They struck him in the abdomen as they arrested him and positioned him in their automobile. They saved insisting he was somebody he was not. Now a grand jury refused to indict the officers concerned and his civil swimsuit ended in a settlement for an undisclosed quantity. Regardless of his encounter, Tim went on to change into a legislation enforcement officer — a Detective Captain for the Atlantic Metropolis prosecutor’s workplace. And in the present day, he is a lawyer —targeted on civil rights. Our dialog begins with Leon Ford.
Personally, I don’t love going into the details of what occurred to me. I’ve in all probability instructed the story a number of 1000’s of times, and every time that I share, I relive what occurred. And Tim, I would assume while you share this story, how far into the details do you go? As a result of me personally, clearly, I was shot 5 times by a Pittsburgh police officer. Nonetheless, some folks need to know these second by second details and so they have questions as a result of they’re curious. And as a survivor of a police taking pictures, that is like, like folks need to actually dive deep into the details of my expertise in a manner that I’m fairly certain they will not inquire about other folks’s experiences.
First, let me say, Leon, I’m actually sorry you have had these experiences. Nobody ought to must undergo this. For me, I used to enter nice element on a narrative. There, and there, have been some variations I would inform which have inside information that solely my household know. And I did run for workplace and you’ve got a crew and so they are likely to handle you and so they handle your your time and the way much time you spend speaking about private experiences. And so, my story received abbreviated. You understand, you are going to lengthy and it is attention-grabbing, however folks actually need to get to the purpose. So I received away from telling the story the way in which I was most comfy telling it. There’s type of like a, an excellent lengthy model, an extended model, after which a more mechanical model.
And Leon, for you, you are an activist now. Have you ever gone by the identical course of? Has your story change into smoothed out, in a manner, as it’s a must to preserve telling it for the sort of public consumption?
Yeah, I would say that I have not. It is attention-grabbing as a result of clearly I do a variety of group work, however, , I do not actually think about myself like an activist. It is a label that I picked up alongside the way in which of my work. And so, , I by no means had a crew to help me construction my story in a manner that will be most impactful. I type of leverage my story and my experiences as a device to evoke change in the world that I’m most comfy sharing it.
Leon, this is Tim. When you do not thoughts me asking, what 12 months did it’s a must to undergo that? What 12 months did you expertise that?
It was 2012 and I was 19 years previous when it occurred.
So do you find that in the present day it is more durable or simpler or about the identical to inform the story?
I find that in the present day, I’m simply exhausted. To return to 2012, I did not have a variety of support, , I did not have the support that I have now. I consider that public opinion in regards to police has shifted considerably since then. And, , I’ve skilled the viral moments after which several months at a time or generally years the place evidently folks have moved on from this situation, till the following police taking pictures or beating. After which persons are riled up for a few months, after which it goes away once more, after which it comes again after one other incident. And so this is the place a bit of, my frustration comes as a result of we’re experiencing one other second the place this is going to be the middle of dialogue here in America. And possibly 5 months from now, most individuals will transfer on.
Leon, let me soar in here as a result of Tim Alexander, you you have been 19, is that right?
I was pondering the identical factor. I was, I was, that is right. I was 19. And I was going to ask Leon. For me, this is the very first time — I’m 57 in the present day — the very first time I’ve had a possibility to speak to somebody who had shared experiences. I’ve by no means had this dialog with an individual who was shot or shot at by the police earlier than. So I’m, I’m more , I know I must take part, however I’d be more in sitting here simply listening to you than the rest, as a result of I get to replicate on myself, listening to what you went by. In fact, the bullet missed me and it was just one. But it surely’s simply wonderful to me. It actually is.
Leon Ford, what was it like so that you can hear of what occurred with the Nichols case? This video, the way in which it was talked about, Tyre Nichols, this video, it was, folks have been actually making an attempt to brace the general public for the worst. Did you watch it?
No, I have not seen the video. I have not read about any of the details. Clearly, folks have despatched it to me through textual content and on social media. Nonetheless, I’m very intentional about not watching these forms of movies. They’re extraordinarily triggering for me. And, , I have folks sending me, , police shootings and beatings weekly. And so it is it is actually onerous for me to maintain up with all of those incidents.
However they assume that you’ll need to see it. Like, hey, look at this, it is one other one.
Precisely. And I do not, what I imply? You understand, when I get these messages and I see what they’re sending me, I simply immediately delete the messages.
Tim Alexander for you, did you watch the video of Tyre Nichols’ beating?
I did. So I watched the video. And when I noticed that video and I broke it down and I watched it over and over, I broke up completely different clips of it.
Wait, I’m sorry. What? You, wait. Can we pause?
You watched it a number of times.
I watched the video, all 4 clips, a number of times.
I might barely get by it as soon as. So, inform me the way you managed to sit down by it a number of times in a number of segments and why you wished to do this to your self?
Nicely, I wished to grasp what occurred. I wished to be capable of discuss intelligently about what every officer did. And, , once they’re telling him all these various things. And it was clear that they weren’t, they weren’t talking to actuality. So, . Once they, once they, I’ve by no means seen this earlier than. And I’m going to let you know this in all honesty. I’ve by no means seen a officer and even heard of an officer standing anyone up, standing anyone up off the bottom, since you’re your job is to get management and be finished. However they stood them up in order that they might punch them again down. I’ve by no means seen that. That, that, it bothered me to no finish. And it bothers me nonetheless.
We talked briefly in regards to the aftermath, so to talk. How does it begin to form you going ahead? And Leon, I’ll begin with you, as a result of clearly you had, you have been paralyzed, such as you had this bodily damage to get well from. Are you able to speak about how that course of, the way it formed you going ahead?
You understand, I questioned God so much. As a result of I did not need to live, I felt like I had no goal after being shot. And luckily, I had a son.
Can I, when did these moments come? Is that this while you’re in rehab? Is that this while you’re in court docket, proper? As a result of there have been the authorized motion after in civil court docket. Are you able to speak about what that course of was?
Instantly. As soon as I discovered, I was paralyzed, I by no means identified anybody, , who had a a bodily incapacity. And so a variety of my perspective of being a person was depending on my physicality. I was very athletic. I was a boxer, , a tough employee. And that was taken away from me, . And so I felt nugatory. My son, I had a son. I have a son. He is ten years previous now. He was born in the hospital the place I was recovering. So he actually gave me a variety of goal and a variety of hope. That is the place I pull my inspiration from I say, , to myself, how can I be an awesome father? And what type of instance do I need to depart for my son? And so my management, my activism, actually got here from fascinated by how I wished to create a world for my son. It was very, very troublesome for me to determine the following steps, particularly when, , there was an assumption that I was responsible. And so I felt like I needed to change into the proper sufferer. And in the start, a variety of my group organizing, a variety of my activism was in oblique alignment with this concept that folks thought I was a nasty particular person as a result of I was shot by a police officer and I had so much to show. And I actually had, in my coronary heart, wished to show to society that I did not should get shot.
Leon Ford is a author and group organizer. Tim Alexander is a lawyer and former legislation enforcement officer. Each survivors of police violence. Extra of our dialog in a minute. We’re in dialog with Leon Ford and Tim Alexander, two males who survived violent encounters with the police.
So I wished to ask Leon, when he was speaking earlier, , I did not understand how indignant I was at times. And I, effectively, my spouse’s not here, we’re married for 36 years, so I have to be doing one thing proper. I try to maintain that anger to myself. In fact, generally even while you’re repressing it, it turns into a problem. However how? You understand, and I assume what I went by is nothing in comparison with what you are struggling with. How do you handle your anger? Is that one thing you concentrate on? Is there one thing you go to remedy for? You actively are working at that? I’m simply curious if, what works for you.
Yeah, I go, I go to remedy. I am an enormous advocate for remedy. And actually, , seeing my therapist has reworked my life. I additionally do some meditation. I write, , I hear to love, I love jazz. You understand, I have an entire routine, like a self-care routine that retains me working on a stage that I have to function on to essentially be efficient in my work. I avoid issues which might be triggering. I do not I do not take heed to, , a variety of violent music. I do not watch violent movies online. You understand, I keep away from that stuff as a result of it takes me again to that place that I don’t need to be. It does not really feel good to me to have that stage of rage that exists. You understand, some days I get up and I take a look at my wheelchair, , earlier than I switch into it. And I’m extraordinarily indignant. However my self-care routine actually serves me in a constructive manner.
Tim Alexander, how do you handle your anger? Or how, what did you study over time?
You understand, I try to find issues that help me decompress. After which when all else, in all probability on the finish of this dialogue in the present day, every part, I’ll flip off every part and I’ll simply sit and never do something. I flip the telephones off. I flip every part off. And that appears to be the most important mechanism for aid for me. I guess is a type of meditation with none formal coaching in that regard. Generally I go to sleep, however for probably the most half I simply try to only take all of it down. My spouse is a therapist, a psychological well being therapist, and it does help to speak to her. And she or he, she is, she’s actually good. You understand, she does not give me solutions, however she’s good. So I have, I have that as effectively. I have a constructed in therapist. I consider that I belong here. I belong in this area. I’ve skilled the issues I’ve skilled for this goal. And now it is my responsibility to carry out and produce. And when now we have some success, it is an awesome day. It actually is. There is no feeling like it. You simply set to work onerous for these days.
Hey, Tim, I’m curious as a result of I actually admire your skill to lean in, , and lean into the work. So I’m curious, how do you separate your private emotions and your private expertise from the work? As a result of it looks like even watching the video, you are capable of view it from the lens of your work expertise. How do you channel that? Like, how do you separate the 2? And likewise, while you’re viewing these movies from the lens of your career, how typically do your private experiences show up in these emotions?
I’ll let you know, it is an awesome query as a result of, , I needed to type of reply that query for myself. Why did this video have an effect on me in another way than George Floyd? And George Floyd, you speak about triggers, George Floyd broke me down. It simply, it simply devastated me. On this case, I nearly instantly went into investigator mode. I wished to know. I had my police practices and procedures hat on one aspect, however I wished to know each single one who had some culpability in the loss of life of this younger man. So to reply your query, I flip flop. And that, , my private experiences have been actually on the floor in George Floyd. And on this one, it was more like, I’m a murder investigator and I’m making an attempt to find everyone responsible for the loss of life of this younger man. And that is how I was capable of get by all these movies after which take a look at them once more in.
There are going to be individuals who, how do I say this? These sorts of movies, in a manner, they are a type of leisure, proper? We’ve got like many years of the show Cops the place persons are entertained by video of arrests and chases and issues like that. And there is one thing in regards to the elevated use of sprint cams, and so on., and physique cams. We will see more of those sorts of movies. And I assume it is very simple to not see the victims as folks anymore. Like it is one other identify, it is one other hashtag. What message would you have got for individuals who really feel like they’re seeing these on a regular basis and there is a type of fatigue about it?
Yeah, Leon, once more. I, I would remind those that these are real folks on these movies, proper? This is not a film. This is a real life that is overwhelmed, that is shot, no matter occurs in the video. And so, until you are an expert and anyone who may be an legal professional making an attempt to determine ways to hunt justice or to forestall this from occurring, I’d encourage folks to not watch them. As a result of, , it’ll weigh on you. After which, two, it is, , it is very traumatic to share these movies and have folks’s kinfolk, , watch the video and must relive the video over and over. And so it causes a variety of hurt. I mentor, , a number of moms who misplaced youngsters to police violence. And I assume folks wish to, they need to support these moms. However the way in which the motion strikes on social media, from private expertise, I see how sharing these movies causes more hurt to the households than good.
Tim Alexander, your message to people who find themselves, who’re seeing these movies and what would you need them to know?
So I must undertake much of what Leon stated and solely add that I would ask if you happen to’re beginning to be desensitized by watching this type of video, then possibly check the way in which you are watching. Understand that this is a real human being that is going by this struggling. However then additionally consider it this manner, that in this case, there’s six households that have been destroyed that evening. Whenever you, you have got a video that exhibits your little one kicking a younger man in the pinnacle over and over and having him get up so you could possibly punch him in the face over and over, and that kid’s sporting a badge. And also you consider how proud you have been the day that particular person graduated from the police academy and that they took that job and so they posed for that photograph, and also you have been all having a superb time. These households are actually destroyed too. That is all by the hands of the accused, do not get me improper. Put blame the place it belongs. But it surely may help you perceive and preserve humanity while you watch these type of incidents that you do not, you can’t change into desensitized while you, you can’t even think about the horror that the sufferer’s household is going by, in addition to the perpetrators household. However for probably the most half, humanity speaks to us to say that we should always empathize with all of the households which might be concerned.
Nicely, Tim Alexander, thanks so much for talking with me.
It was my absolute pleasure. And Leon, I hope we can keep in contact. I hope now we have a much longer dialog sometime.
And Leon Ford, I need to thanks for talking with us as effectively.
It was a pleasure. Thanks for having me.
Leon Ford is an creator, speaker, and co-founding father of The Right here Basis, which works with Pittsburgh police and the town to construct safe communities. And his new ebook is accessible for preorder, it is known as “An Unspeakable Hope: Brutality, Forgiveness, and Constructing a Higher Future for My Son.” And Tim Alexander is a lawyer, politician, and former detective captain for the Atlantic County Prosecutor’s Workplace. He lives in New Jersey. New episodes of The Task drop each Thursday, so please hear and observe wherever you get your podcasts. And if you happen to just like the show, depart us a score and a review. Yeah, it issues. The Task is a manufacturing of CNN Audio. Our producers are Madeleine Thompson, Jennifer Lai and Lori Galarreta. Our affiliate producers are Isoke Samuel, Allison Park and Sonia Htoon. Our senior producers are Haley Thomas and Matt Martinez. Our editor is Rina Palta. Mixing and Sound Design by David Schulman. Dan Dzula is our technical director. Abbie Fentress Swanson is our govt producer. And particular due to Katie Hinman. I’m Audie Cornish. Thanks for listening.
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Dave Petchy
